A City is not a Computer

Matthew: Welcome to the newest, latest edition of the DevRel Book Club. I'm Matthew Revell, and I'm joined as always by my friend Carmen Huidobro. Hello everyone.

Carmen: Hey. Hey Matt. Hi everybody. Hope everybody's having a wonderful day. If you're listening to this later on, hope you're having a wonderful day as well.

Matthew: Today, we are joined by Erin Mikail Staples, who is a technical community builder, and we'll be discussing with her the book A City Is Not a Computer, which is a fascinating read. I've been working my way through it over the past couple of weeks, and I know you have as well, Carmen. It’s something a little different compared to what we've covered in previous episodes. Not only is it more of an academic text, but it really hits home with the idea that this should be a series of reviews of books that aren't directly related to developer relations. So I think it’s going to be a fascinating conversation with Erin, looking at how this applies to her work as a technical community builder.

Carmen: I was surprised reading it because I went in without having read much about it, and I came out realizing that I had read an academic text that wasn’t just about computers or developer relations, but was also quite anthropological. I could be wrong about that.

Matthew: This episode of the DevRel Book Club is sponsored by Orbit, and we have a quick message from them just before we get into the meat of the podcast.

Patrick: I'm Patrick Woods, CEO of Orbit. Orbit is the community growth platform that allows more than 9,000 users to manage over 30 million community members across their platforms. Almost everyone we talked to early on, when they were thinking about measuring their community, was using the funnel to describe and measure community outcomes. It seemed obvious because it was the only commercial metaphor we had, but because the funnel is meant to measure linear and binary processes, it starts to break down when you think about community. Communities aren’t linear or binary in nature. We realized that instead of pushing community members through a pre-prescribed set of steps, what you actually want is to create a community so attractive that it naturally pulls people in. We call that high gravity. If you think about the visual identity of a funnel, it looks like an ice cream cone. For community, we think of concentric circles of an orbit sitting atop that funnel. The theory is that if you create more activity, create more engagement, increase the love for your community (as we’d say in the Orbit model), then the top of that ice cream cone will expand, allowing more community members to naturally join.

Matthew: Thank you very much to Orbit for supporting us in this series. Okay, let’s bring in Erin and start discussing this fascinating title. So, Erin, welcome to the DevRel Book Club.

Erin: Hi all! I’m super excited for this. I’m an avid reader, so this is actually one of the best books I’ve read over the past year. It’s one of those recommendations I’d give anyone, even though it’s academic and can be dense. I think it has so many applications for people not just in developer relations and technical community building, but for anyone who cares about the communities they live in and work with.

Matthew: It’s one of the most fascinating books we've looked at so far. Before we dive into the details, I'd love it if you could tell us about your journey as a technical community builder and a bit about your philosophy when it comes to developer communities and developer relations. I think this will help people frame their understanding of why the book means so much to you.

Erin: Sure! So for context, my journey into developer relations, developer education, or any other DevRel-adjacent title was kind of an accident. I started out learning by doing. I was actually a product manager before making the pivot into this space, and it all happened because I was hired for a role where I was also asked to manage the community, handle product docs, and manage our Twitch—essentially becoming the head of community while also still being a product manager. That was my accidental entry into DevRel. Over the past few years, I’ve delved more into open source and really come to understand what this space is. I think Mary Thengvall does an excellent job of highlighting the three pillars of DevRel: code, content, and community. Everyone has their strengths across those, but to me, developer relations is about building and advocating for the tools we use, the companies we work for, and the broader industry as a whole.

Carmen: Fascinating. I like the breakdown of the three pillars. It’s funny, a lot of folks in DevRel share stories of how they kind of stumbled into it, yet I’m also seeing people now focus on it from the start of their careers. There’s no set linear path, and I think that’s one of the best parts.

Erin: Exactly. There’s no linear path, and we’re just now seeing clearer career progression in DevRel. But we still lack consistency in role definitions, compensation transparency, and expectations. For instance, when I interview, I’ll often ask what success looks like to the company. When I throw it back to them, I’m looking for clarity on goals, whether they focus on growth or documentation, for example.

Matthew: This is a topic I think about a lot. In our upcoming DevRel industry report, we’re exploring the question, “What is the mandate given to your DevRel team?” The variety within DevRel is enormous, so understanding that mandate is important for individuals entering the field.

Erin: Absolutely. And that’s actually something I love about A City Is Not a Computer. The book highlights how metrics, whether for cities or DevRel, can impact goals and actions, and it points out the problems we face when we innovate for innovation’s sake.

Matthew: To give a bit of context, A City Is Not a Computer isn’t a traditional tech book, and it’s certainly not a DevRel book. But it’s a book about community in a broad sense, specifically urban communities. The title references the concept that cities aren’t computers—they’re organic, chaotic systems that don’t function in linear ways. The book examines this in the context of “smart cities,” where the premise is that if we gather all possible data about a city, we can solve its issues. But the book’s central thesis challenges that idea.

Erin: Exactly. The book also riffs on the work A Computer is Not a Tree, which discusses structured ways of thinking and the tendency to categorize things into binaries—good/bad, successful/unsuccessful. This binary view doesn’t always apply, and I see this a lot in DevRel as well. When we focus on growth as a measure of success, for instance, we might be applying a binary where we don’t need to.

Carmen: Yes! Reading this now, just a year after it was published, I felt it was so relevant to current discussions about tech's role in society, especially in the wake of the pandemic. This book would’ve been a perfect fit in a human-computer interaction course on ethics and social justice.

Erin: Totally. I picked this book up after following the author, Shannon Mattern, on Twitter, and it’s an excellent resource for anyone questioning how we define innovation and success. The historical context she provides helps me reflect on my own approach to new tech and its hidden impacts.

Matthew: Let’s zoom in on how we can use Shannon Mattern’s ideas to improve as DevRel professionals. I think it starts with humility—understanding that just because you can measure something doesn’t mean you fully understand it.

Erin: Yes, exactly. There’s a lot in this book about the limits of what data alone can tell us. Shannon talks about the idea of a “city dashboard” as if it’s this magical tool that, if only perfected, could provide all the insight we need. But she argues that dashboards, even when built with the best intentions, are still limited by the perspectives and assumptions of those who create them. I’ve taken that to heart in my work because we can get so focused on dashboards and metrics that we forget to step back and ask if we're truly understanding the whole picture.

Matthew: And that’s a big takeaway for me as well. Sometimes, in DevRel, we rely on metrics to tell us if our community is healthy or if our programs are working. But while metrics can help, they’re just one piece of a bigger story. You have to combine that quantitative data with qualitative insights. It’s not enough to look at numbers; you have to go out and speak with people, understand their journeys, and sometimes make room for the things that aren’t as easily measurable.

Carmen: Absolutely. And I think that’s where humility comes in, too. This book reminds us that communities—whether they’re cities or DevRel communities—are not just numbers. They’re full of people with unique motivations and backgrounds. We have to acknowledge the limits of our data and make space for understanding the lived experiences that numbers alone can’t capture.

Erin: Exactly! And another key theme in the book is this concept of “maintenance.” It’s not enough to build a community; you have to think about how you’re going to keep it healthy and sustainable in the long run. We see this so often in DevRel. There’s an initial excitement to create a Discord or a forum, but maintaining and nurturing that space is just as crucial. If you don’t have a strategy to keep people engaged in a meaningful way, your community becomes just another forgotten “feature” in the stack.

Matthew: I really love that comparison to city planning, where they’re thinking in terms of decades, sometimes even centuries. In DevRel, we’re often pressured to deliver quick wins, and there’s a temptation to always chase the next shiny thing. But if we took more of a city-planning mindset—thinking long-term and focusing on sustainability—it could make a real difference in how we approach community building.

Carmen: Yes! And that’s also one of the reasons the library metaphor stood out to me. A library is more than just a collection of books; it’s a community space, a learning hub, and a place of connection. In DevRel, our communities should function similarly—not just as repositories of information but as places where people feel welcome, supported, and valued. And that takes thoughtful maintenance.

Erin: Exactly. And maintaining that kind of space means acknowledging that people’s needs and interests will evolve. Like a city library that updates its collections and hosts community events, we have to keep listening to our community and adapting our strategies accordingly. Maintenance is as much about flexibility as it is about keeping things running smoothly.

Matthew: And I think that leads us to the idea of shared ownership. A community, like a city, can’t thrive if only one group or individual is responsible for everything. Successful DevRel teams work cross-functionally to involve different departments and stakeholders. If your whole organization sees the value in maintaining and growing the community, you’re less likely to face the “maintenance burnout” that we so often see in DevRel roles.

Erin: Yes! It’s so important to break out of silos. A strong DevRel team is one that can work across departments and bring everyone along. If DevRel is isolated from the rest of the organization, it becomes much harder to create that shared sense of responsibility, which ultimately impacts the community’s health and resilience.

Carmen: And that ties back to the book’s core message about moving away from rigid, top-down structures. Just like cities need more organic growth patterns to be truly livable, our communities need to grow in ways that feel natural and relevant to the people within them.

Matthew: Exactly. We need to be less focused on forcing growth and more on nurturing it, allowing it to evolve organically. This book really opened my eyes to the parallels between urban planning and DevRel. It’s a reminder that, just like cities, communities are complex, evolving entities—and if we treat them like machines, we miss the human element that makes them thrive.

Erin: 100%. The book reinforces that a community’s value isn’t just in its size or even its activity level but in the quality of interactions and the sense of belonging people feel within it. That’s something metrics alone can’t always capture, but it’s what keeps people coming back.

Carmen: I think it’s safe to say we’re all walking away with new perspectives from A City Is Not a Computer. It’s a reminder that building a community is as much about listening, flexibility, and shared purpose as it is about achieving growth targets or measuring engagement.

Matthew: Well said, Carmen. Erin, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insights. It’s been a fantastic discussion, and I think it will resonate with everyone in DevRel or anyone who’s part of a community.

Erin: Thank you so much for having me! This is truly one of my favorite books, and I loved geeking out with you both.